Practice makes perfect.

Remember when during the Gulf War an Iraqi unit surrendered to Apaches that were strafing them. The first time in history a unit surrendered to aircraft alone. They flew in a couple of Chinooks to fly the prisoners out, 200 miles behind the lines. Looks like they are still pushing the edge on developing newer and better surrender techniques. The French better watch out, they may lose the title.

Course the difference is that the French are happy to be French. I doubt right now many Iraqi's will make a similar claim.

Us military casualties WW2 (all fronts)

295,000

French Military casualties World war two

340,000
https://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/BACK/Casualties.htm

Still why let the facts get in the way of a good bit of propaganda!

What propaganda? The fact that almost as many Americans died defending France as did Frenchmen defending their HOMELAND? If the roles were reversed, and it was America defending herself from an enemy today, I wonder what the proportion of American to French casualties would be. Think it would be almost 1:1? Or would France say "not our war, so who cares"?

And are you suggesting that Vichey France is just propaganda? Something made up by France's enemies to make her look bad? Are you a holocaust denier as well?

It would be great, Harm, if you ever actually tried to make a point or present a reasoned argument. Instead all you do is take things out of context from much longer posts OR find something somewhere that supports your stance, post some hit and run snide and bitchy comment, and then vaporize. I see you still don't have the courage to actually post contact information so people can get in touch with you directly if they want.

But you are a classic example of why the anti-war groups here in the US are having a hard time attracting anyone other than old hippies and Marxists - there are no real arguments against disarming Saddam, just empty, hollow slogans, screaming, whistle blowing, and dudes on stilts.

If the facts dont fit, just throw out the insults.

Vichy France was, interestingly enough, run by conservatives who feared socialists more than Hitler, check it out.

BTW it has been argued that if the USA had not appeased Hitler in 1939, its unlikely the war would ever have started.

Sure it's been argued that WWII was all the US's fault, but primarily by the people that really allowed Hitler to come into power. And who cares that Vichy France was more afraid of socialists than the Nazis, that just means they would have surrendered to them faster than the surrendered to Germany, if such a thing were possible. And that government helped deport and slaughter a huge percentage of its Jewish population. As you're so fond of saying, "look it up".

I wish you would drop the martyr act. You never present any actual "facts". You present anecdotes like the one above "it's been argued that..." etc, etc, etc. I can find all kinds of websites arguing that the holocaust never happened, but I would never dream of trying to present those as a valid argument for anything. You selectively filter everything to fit your own little worldview, and then throw out out-of-context sound bites. Then get all whiney when people tell you that your bullshit is, in fact, bullshit.

And speaking of facts, I note that, once again you don't refute any of the points I made, just start crying about being insulted. Still waiting for you to do something with the "Iraq-al Qaeda" points other than telling me to shut up. I have provided you with 2 bits of evidence that such a link exists, and my commenters have given you a couple of more.

I re-read my response to you, and don't see any insults at all. Is that your only argument - present your views and then complain about being insulted when anyone disagrees? Can you actually make a statement and then defend it against attack with reasoned arguments?

But hey, at least you left a valid, if anonymous web-based, e-mail address. Perhaps next we will see actual debate rather than snide little sound bitlets.

*sigh*

You trying to get my home address or something, if you think I ma going to post anything other that a webby one on a righth-wing American site I have a bridge you might be interested in

No insults?

"But you are a classic example of why the anti-war groups here in the US are having a hard time attracting anyone other than old hippies and Marxists - there are no real arguments against disarming Saddam, just empty, hollow slogans, screaming, whistle blowing, and dudes on stilts."

Now I assume that you assume I am one of those.

Now f I said

"The pro-war people are a bunch of sad rednecks, extreme right-wing racist zeolots and bloodthirsty idiots who listen to too much talk radio" would you take that as an insult?

(I dont believe the above but its how you argue about us)

As for points, try making some rather than overlong wild accusations and Xenophobic insults about whole nations, then their might be a basis to have a discussion,.

Actually, the Nazi's were socialists. How they felt about Hitler is kind of beside the point since his boot was on their neck, and the choice between what you call "socialist" and the Nazi's was already made for them.

You aren't one of those who use the word socialist when talking about communists are you? The difference between communists and socialists may be huge from a Euro prospective, but there isn't a dimes worth of difference between them to an American. Both are the same type of mistake, it's a matter of degree, not of kind.

Ahhh, Harm. Believe me the last thing I want is your home address, or anything else that personal about you. Right wing website? You sure you got the right place in mind here? Go back and read some actual content here, and you'll see that I am pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and am anything other than xenophobic. I just think the French and German governments have been much less than honest in this entire affair, and have no problems calling them on it.

And actually, I didn't call you anything - I pointed out the people who made up the huge majority of the anti-war/liberation groups here in the US. I don't know, and could actually care less, if you are any of these things. Of course, if you ever offered us anything other than sarcasm, we might actually know what your positions are. So far all we know is that 1) You hate Bush and 2) America appears to be the cause of all ills, including WWII. Apparently appeasement by the British government and all of the other governments on the European continent were small factors compared to the US hesitancy to enter the war.

"Vichy France was, interestingly enough, run by conservatives who feared socialists more than Hitler, check it out."

Let's check out. For instance Pierre Laval, Vichy's Prime minister, founder of the Milice and the most prevalent symbol of Vichy France way before the decrepit P�tain.
Member of the Socialist party, Laval was a Socialist representative at the French parliament at the beginning of the last century.
Some would say that he "turned" right after WWI but, as one of his opponents pointed out, Laval reads the same from the left or the right.
Which in turns makes me believe that, just like Hitler (yes, National-Socialists were Socialist, funny ah?) and Mussolini (Who started his career as a Socialist too) he just pushed Socialism to one of the two final totalitarian incarnations this murderous utopia is always predestined when applied as a rule model in real life: Communism or Fascism.

In the early 30s, Laval was successively foreign and prime minister in the French government. He worked hard to establish good relations with Germany and theSoviet Union. (As a reminder, the 30s in the Soviet Union are "memorable" for an unprecedented repression against the society and a tremendous extension of the concentration camps. What was that word? "Check it out"?)

conservatives who feared socialists more than Hitler ... Well, looks like Laval, the head of the Vichy government (remember it's the Prime who leads the policy here - I mean in France) liked both equally.

Keep wearing your "El Che" T-shirt, waving your red flag in peace protests and comforting yourself over the phantasm that the enemies of freedom are easily identifiable under the "right wing conservative" label.

America appears to be the cause of all ills, including WWII

Who said that exactly?

Oh thats right, its the new conservative way of dismissing dissent.

Asor Lael, he left the left (sic) after the Russian revolution and became a violent anti-communist (sound familiar?)

You also fail to mention Petain, the man who led Vichy France, possibly because if you did the rushing noise of your argument going down the plughole would be deafening!