People love to say "look at all the future Bin Ladens you will create", as if we could stop that. I wonder though, will the children and grandchildren of that terrifed old woman those Rangers rescued off that bridge hate us for it? Will they? Or will they maybe, if not love us, at least see us as not their enemy. I don't doubt that many will seeth with hate at the people we've been forced to kill. But the flip side of the same coin, how many will be greatful, for the child treated, the father released from Saddam's jail, or the poor old woman saved from the Hell of a firefight? How about the millions who yearn to live without the constant fear that they will be denounced by some Bath official, a near certain death sentence?

I won't suggest I know anything special about Iraqi's, but people are people. Let's see what they think when the fear of execution is removed from the mix.

Puggs, do you honestly believe that those kids will not hate us?

If a foreign army made you an orphan, how forgiving would you be?

I'm certain some will, are you so certain they ALL will?

How much do they hate Iran harm? How much should I hate you for the abuses of the redcoats in the 18th century? How much does Japan hate us?

Not everyone suffers directly, and not everyone fosters their hate, if what you say is true, can you in the UK ever be free of Irish terrorists?
Hate isn't infinite harm, sooner, or sadly, later it runs out. Then the rebuilding can begin. It isn't a happy circumstance, but it's all we have left to us. We hope to break the cycle, feeding people, caring for them, and killing the cause of their fear.

I think this picture sums a lot of it up:

https://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u;=/030331/168/3o8k3.html&e;=13&ncid;=996

Interesting pic, Harm. A POW, being treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention, being allowed to hold and comfort his son. That helps our case, you drunken Scottish twit!

I think these pictures of the Iraqi chemical attack on the civilians of the town of Halabja sums a lot of it up.

Don't click if you've a weak stomach.

SO you can hood people under the Geneva convention?

Now that is a new one on me.

To get back to the point, what reason could you give that kid to do anything other than hate us?

Yep. Hoods are acceptable as blindfolds provided they do not restrict normal breathing. . .and the fact that you don't know that tells me how much research you do on anything. It's nice to have proof.

Well, why don't you go to Iraq and track the kid down in ten years or so and ask him--I expect he might not hate us. Had he been seperated from his father, yeah, I've no argument. But he's with his father, he will be sheltered, fed, and treated for any medical conditions, and soon he'll be FREE. A little kindness goes a long way sometimes.

Victor, I disagree.

How would you react to seeing US POW's in hoods?

So far, I haven't. I *have* seen them dead in a way that suggests they were executed, and I'm sure you'd agree that is against the Geneva convention.

But I would celebrate them being seen sitting or walking in hoods. That would suggest Iraq has started to follow the Geneva Convention.

Alas, I suspect if I should ever see Coalition servicemen/women in hoods, they would be standing tied to a post before a firing squad, as in this picture at the bottom--and again, I'm sure you would agree that would be a violation of the Convention.

I'm curious as to your reaction to the links of photos I've posted.

Victor no-one has ever suggested that Saddam is anything other than a brutal thug, the question is do you launch a war or not.

Now so far it's not working and is in fact making our whole situation far worse, thats the issue.

Grab a couple of hours sleep and I wake up to see that my whole point went right past you harm. Despite the withering return fire of Victor.

I stand by my earlier assement from a previous comment action. You suck at military affairs, how are things going so wrong? Compared to history, we are doing outrageously well, far fewer people have died than in any similar war in recent history.

You seem incapable of any doubt, war is bad, ergo we are bad for waging one. Well I'm sure thats a comfort to the people we have liberated already, and the rest as we free them. Sorry, our bad, Saddam can go on torturing you like a cat with a cage of mice. Harm says it's bad to end Saddam's fun.

Can't you even begin to understand that those people are already suffering, can't you concieve that they may want us to end their suffering? The evidence is there, you just ignore it.

Puggs you are arguing as if the last two weeks had not happened, it's clear that the Iraqis hate Saddam, but they are also defending their country from foreign invaders.

This piece from an Israeli paper sums it up pretty well:
https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=278994&contrassID;=2&subContrassID;=4&sbSubContrassID;=0&listSrc;=Y

I'm more aware than you can imagine, I know people fighting over there, my wife has family there as well. I do not deny that some nationalist ferver is in play, why do you deny that it isn't the only factor?

I never said is was easy, just that it's going easier than history would suggest. We have met resistance, that doesn't mean we have lost. I know what urban combat means harm, far better than you I think. I stand by my comments, we are not losing, we are advancing, we are smashing what resistance comes up, we have consolidated our rear areas and are getting reinforcements for a northern front. Everyday we get stronger and they get weaker.

You argue as if we were reeling and being driven back. Get your nose out of the commentary pages and try looking at a map. The momentum is on our side, and Huessein can't count on his people to remain loyal. I don't know when it will end, but the certainty is that you don't either. Remember Afghaistan? All the sources on the left predicted we would never in a tousand years take Kabul.

I can read harm, and I have faith in the men fighting because I know them, and know of them. I don't panic at shrill reports, nor do I get my views from a politicaly slanted broadstreet paper. All the wailing and running in circles from segments of the media does not impress me.

Harmonia said,

"To get back to the point, what reason could you give that kid to do anything other than hate us?"

So what if he does? Much of the world hates us and yet, they can't do a damn thing to stop us from whatever we want to do.

That "kid" is just one more out of millions that will live a life of frustration and find no relief from it.

Don

man

I would hate to see the glee if things really were going badly. It's amazing, the power of wishful thinking.